Saturday, July 07, 2007

The Origins of Indians: Version 8.0

Coastal Migration Hypothesis and I:
I am rejecting coastal migration hypothesis for the following reasons;
1. The earliest remains of modern humans in South Asia(from Sri Lanka) are dated around 31000BP.
2. There is no proof of Y-Haplogroup D, the fellow traveller of Y-Haplogroup C in the coastal migration out of Africa, in India.
3. As of now, Y-Haplogroup C* clan is mostly observed in tribes that also have F* and H* in high frequencies. Whereas, Y-Haplogroup C5 shows mostly non-tribal distribution. I would consider C* being part of the first major colonization of South Asia along with F* and H*.

Migrations to the subcontinent:
1. The first migration :
Y-C*,F*,H*
mtDNA-M*,U*
around 40000-35000BP
from southern-central Asia
unknown language
2. Austro-Asiatic migration:
Y-O2a
mtDNA - X?
unknown period of migration
unknown place of origin
Munda, Khasi languages
3. Identity less migration:
Y-R2*, R1a1*, J2a*
mtDNA R*, W*, N*
from 20000 to 10000BP
from southern-central Asia
Proto-Sino-Caucasian?
4. IE migration:
Y-R1a1*
mtDNA H*
from 4000BP-500CE
from Kurgan lands

4. Dravidian migration :
Y-J2b*, L1*, K*
mtDNA J*, T*
around 3000 BP
from southern Iran

5. Aryan migration:
Y-J2a*, G2*
mtDNA H*
around 3500 BP
from northern Iran, Afghanistan, southern Caucasus
Originally, Caucasian speakers later Indo-Aryan.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Manjunath,

Do you know of an online proto-dravidian dictionary? Can you kindly post it as a reply to this comment?

Manjunath said...

anonymous:
I refer Starling database.

Ibra said...

I bet there are some M markers that could be deemed Dravidian. They would most likely follow an example analogous to L, being found is West Asia due to trade/contact with the Indus culture and being highly distributed in Northwest India. For some reason M3 comes to mind so I leave that as a hypothesis.

Manjunath said...

Ibra:
I would like to see distribution of M3 in Caucasus or in Northern Iran or in Afghanistan. It rather looks like my "Semitic Aryan" matrilineage :-).

Manjunath said...

The frequency of M3a is at its highest amongst the Parsees of Mumbai (22%). Given the low M3a diversity amongst the Parsees – the twelve M3a mtDNAs fall into the two most common haplotypes (Figure 7) – the high frequency is likely a result of admixture and subsequent founder events. On the other hand, it is intriguing that, despite its low frequency, M3a penetrates into central and southwestern Iran (Figure 1, panel M3a) – the historic origin of the Zoroastrian Parsees. In addition to the Parsees we found M3a at high frequencies amongst the Brahmins of Uttar Pradesh (16%) and the Rajputs of Rajasthan (14%)

Metspalu et al. 2004.

Manjunath said...

Contrary to a prediction, deriving
from a hypothesis that a higher frequency of
'western' gene lineages should discriminate higher
castes from lower castes, it was found (Bamshad et
al. 2001) that the difference between 'upper', 'middle'
and 'lower' caste Dravidian-speaking Telugus is
more strongly stratified in terms of the two Indianspecific
maternal lineage clusters M3 (19 per cent in
'upper', 4 per cent in 'middle', and 1 per cent in
'lower' castes) and U2i (17 per cent - 10 per cent - 6
per cent, respectively), rather than by those of recent
western Asian origin (5 per cent - 2 per cent - 1 per
cent, respectively).

Kivisild et al. 2003a

Ibra said...

-Manju so are you saying that you infer your mtDNA to be M3? You should get contact with a geneticist to resolve the issue, preferably one that has worked with South Asian mtDNA. M3 seems to be a very central marker in the context of South Asia and I hope it is studied further. Thanks for bringing up the fascinating points.

-According to some geneticist B4 and B5 is a genetic marker that came in with O2a and relates to the Austro-Asiatic migration.

http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/evoeco/files/research/publications/Velavan2005.pdf

Ibra said...

http://tinyurl.com/2lsz5s

Manjunath said...

-Manju so are you saying that you infer your mtDNA to be M3?

What made you to think so? I have no idea about my mtDNA. At least, the studies show negligible M3 in Kerala.

Manjunath said...

Also, M3 is defined by mutation at 16126 that I don't have.

-According to some geneticist B4 and B5 is a genetic marker that came in with O2a and relates to the Austro-Asiatic migration.

Thanks for that info. I'll go thro' the paper.

Ibra said...

“It rather looks like my "Semitic Aryan" matrilineage”

I presume you meant to say in reference to you theory. I have such poor comprehension skills and am also deprived at getting my point across. Do you have any guesses at what your mtDNA M* could be? I guess we can rule out M3.

Manjunath said...

I presume you meant to say in reference to you theory.

Indeed. LOL.

I have such poor comprehension skills and am also deprived at getting my point across.

That is just my English!

Do you have any guesses at what your mtDNA M* could be?

I have not yet found a subclade of M with 263C motif in any of the papers. So, at present I am clueless.

Ibra said...

Your closet match "569TH" appears to be an M2. This can be seen by comparing their HVR1 and HVR2 with another dataset.

http://tinyurl.com/24qc7j

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5knwh8

A glimmer of hope :-)

Ibra said...

Sorry I meant "5SRQQ"

Manjunath said...

M2 is bit strange. One study has found its strong presence in AA tribes(Basu et al. 2003). Other study found it about 2% among AAs(Khan et al. 2007). I guess it is defined by 16223-16319 mutations. Both I and 5SRQQ do not have that motif. But considering its exclusive distribution in South India, I certainly can't rule that out.

I read somewhere that 311C, 519C and 527T are useless motifs because they occur randomly across many haplogroups. My interest would be 16223-16263. Do you have mtDNA HVR1 and HVRII data of Romas?

Ibra said...

Ok here is another dataset you can try. Have you considered an HVR2 upgrade? :P

http://tinyurl.com/2gkpqd

Manjunath said...

Ibra:
Thank you very much! That is really some database. I have many exact matches. Unfortunately all of them identified as M which I suppose is not much of use.

Have you considered an HVR2 upgrade? :P

May be you can take a guess!

Ibra said...

I say go for your HVR2 upgrade. Then there would be at least some hope for your haplogroup to be determined. Your mtDNA might even be one of those “just this minute” defined M subclades.