Sunday, June 17, 2007

The Origins of Indians: Version 7.0

The migrations that made up India:
1. Y-Hg-C coastal migration: Unknown language/ mtDNA: M*
2. Y-Hg-H migration : Unknown language/ mtDNA: U, R
3. Y-Hg-R2 migration : Unknown language/ mtDNA: ?
4. Y-Hg-O migration : Austro-Asiatic/ mtDNA: X?
5. Dravidian migration : Defining lineages Y-Hg-J2b and Y-Hg-L/ mtDNA: J2, T1
6. Indo-European migration : Defining lineage Y-Hg-R1a1/ mtDNA: H?, W?
7. Aryan migration : Defining lineage Y-Hg-J2a and Y-Hg-G2 (probably Semitics or Caucasian speakers)/ mtDNA: H?, W?

I would consider Indo-European urheimat in Kurgan lands and Aryan urheimat in South Caucasus, Afghanistan.

Arya probably a later identifier for this people once they adopted IE language. Arya as a self-designation is not used by any other IE peoples.

19 comments:

bachodi said...

Hi manjunath ,
Good to see updates in your blog. There is one virtual map which traces where human traveled across the world. Very interesting about Indian map too. May be interesting to you too. Have a look
http://horizonspeaks.wordpress.com/2007/06/15/human-migration-in-virtual-map/

Ibra said...

Manju you have to work F* into the setting as well, it's actually more universal than C*. H* as been proven to be a Paleolithic linage and is sort of like I* in Europe. Both haplogroups are about 25,000 years old, regional specific and are about 20% in there respective populations. H* has the best chance of expanding with M* (mtDNA) as the age would signify. There is also a paper concerning the path taken into India, dead through the center and along the Narmada River and independently along the coast. I will post it in the Quetzalcoatl forum.

Manjunath said...

Ibra:
I was about start a thread at Quetzalcoatl on F* in Caucasus. I think F* is rather puzzling.

Manjunath said...

bachodi:

Thanks for the link. You can find human journey with genetic details at Genographic site.

Ibra said...

Given the fact that major markers like IJ and G derives from F*, true F’s in the region is feasible. The problem with the recent studies in the Caucasus is that J1 was under typed and probably included with F* while J2 was distinguished. I hate speculating and would like to see a high resolution analysis of the Area including the Middle East. In the mean while there is a detailed study on Iran. The sample size is not large but it is still helpful.

http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?Aktion=ShowPDF&ArtikelNr=93774&Ausgabe=232012&ProduktNr=224250&filename=93774.pdf

and this table,

http://img107.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jordan4it.jpg

Ibra said...

The first link didn't go through so the title of the paper is "Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration" available free online.

Manjunath said...

Ibra:
What about Y-Hg-H? I didn't find M69, M52 being part of the markers. By the way, the Iranian study classifies M410 as J2b. That gives a wrong idea of J2a and J2b distribution.

Ibra said...

Sharp eye, J2a and J2b are switched around. Guess it's their mistake. H is incorporated as F* too in the other study. If every haplogroup were undertyped 95% of the Eurasian haplogroups would be called F*. H-M52 is the most widespread H variant across South Asia. It arose 10,000 years ago but I wonder where?

Ibra said...

There is also F1 in the Middle East and F2 in Asia. Both are extremely rare from what I know.

Manjunath said...

Sharp eye

Somebody at Dienekes' already pointed it out some time ago :-).

Hope there is going to be another study on Caucasus population taht includes proper mtDNA data.

I think researchers in this field must be obliged to update their study data and conclusions regularly :-).

Ibra said...

I think we can even identify mtDNA H that moved along with R1a in the IE migration. H2 seems to fit the distribution well. There is also a paper discussing mtDNA H’s diffusion form the Caucasus in the Paleolithic era. This area is presumable the source of mtDNA H in the Near East and Europe.

Ibra said...

http://dspace.utlib.ee/dspace/bitstream/10062/782/5/Roostalu.pdf

Here it is, takes some time to load.

Ibra said...

Add .pdf to that link

Ibra said...

Manju, just in I got my haplgroup *LOL*

Manjunath said...

Congratulations! That was quick. Is it already part of the all the migrations that I have mentioned ;-). If not, it will get its due recognition.

Ibra said...

Took about 3 weeks. The sheer amount of samples coming in must have slowed . Your migration comes dam close I might add.

Ibra said...

Power to the R people I am R1a1!

Manjunath said...

Ibra:
Power to the R people I am R1a1!

You see, when Dr. Wells wrung his right cheek and said in a dismissive tone that R2 clan was not found in great frequency anywhere I did not feel very powerful :lol:.

Ibra said...

Well the R2 people are powerfully by numbers. All the R2 people in South Asia would with no trouble fill the Middle East whereas all the R2 people in the Middle East might fit in decent sized American Stadium. :-)